Discussion:
Frei wie in Freiheit?
(zu alt für eine Antwort)
Thomas Schneider
2006-12-04 17:49:15 UTC
Permalink
Muß man jetzt irgendwie verstehen, was der gemeine Amerikaner
damit meint? Wieso glauben die FSF-Leute, daß das jeder versteht? Ich
verstehe es nämlich nicht. Und ein Wortspiel ohne verständliche Pointe -
um ein Problem zu erklären - ist sinnlos. Kurz: Wer erklärt es mir?
Noch als Ergänzung zu den anderen Postings: Das Ganze beruht auf der
Doppeldeutigkeit der Wortes "free" im Englischen, nämlich "kostenlos"
und "frei". Als englisch sprechender Mensch weiß man nicht unbedingt
sofort, welches "free" denn jetzt gerade gemeint ist und darum das
wortspielende "Free as in free beer", "Free as in freeedom" zur plastischen
Erläuterung.
Das lässt sich so direkt eigentlich nicht angemessen ins Deutsche übertragen
weil bei uns für "frei" und "kostenlos" eben zwei Begriffe verwendet
werden. "Frei wie in Freiheit, nicht wie in Freibier" fand ich persönlich
schon immer etwas holprig, aber besser lässt sich das wohl nicht
übertragen.
Hoffe, ich konnte den Hintergrund etwas aufhellen.
Ja, genau dieses Problem habe ich auch damit. Ich habe mir nun alle die
guten Erklärungsansätze hier durchgelesen, verstehe auch was gemeint
ist, aber diesen Vergleich "Frei/Bier/Freiheit" sollte man nicht ins
Deutsche *übersetzen*, er funktioniert hier nicht. Man sollte ihn mit
einem anderen Beispiel *übertragen*. Ralphs Vorschlag finde ich da viel
verständlicher (<***@news.strg-alt-entf.org>):

"Frei, wie in freie Meinung, nicht frei, wie in freiem Eintritt."

Sollte vielleicht mal einer den "GNUs" und "FSFs" mitteilen. Wenn man
nämlich erst noch lange erklären muß, was mit "frei" im Englischen
gemeint ist, dann kann man die Pointe in und das Verstehen des
"Frei/Bier/Freiheit" vergessen.

TS


xposted: de.comp.gnu
Alexander Terekhov
2006-12-07 13:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Thomas Schneider wrote:
[...]
Post by Thomas Schneider
"Frei/Bier/Freiheit" vergessen.
"So now they're going to try the hard work of cracking 'Freedom'. Free,
well that means stuff you don't pay for"

-- Eben Moglen ("Moglen: How we'll kill the Microsoft Novell deal")

IBM: "65. Among the "further restrictions" that the GPL and LGPL do not
permit are royalties or licensing fees (Ex.27 ¶¶ 2, 3; Ex. 26 ¶¶ 2, 4)
(although fees can be collected for "the physical act of transferring
a copy" of the code or for warranty protection). (Ex. 27 ¶ 1; Ex. 26
¶ 1.) If modified works or machine-readable versions of GPL- or LGPL-
licensed software are distributed, they must be licensed "at no charge
to all third parties under the terms of this License." (Ex. 27 ¶ 2
(emphasis added); Ex. 26 ¶ 2; see also Ex. 27 ¶ 3; Ex. 26 ¶ 4.)"
REDACTED MEMORANDUM IN SUPPORT OF IBM'S MOTION FOR PARTIAL SUMMARY
JUDGMENT in SCO v. IBM (see Groklaw).

And drunken trio team of judges lead by prolific and learned Chief
Judge Frank Easterbrook went even further:

http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?submit=showbr&shofile=06-2454_008.pdf

-------
Before EASTERBROOK, KANNE, and EVANS, Circuit Judges.

EASTERBROOK, Circuit Judge. Does the provision of copyrighted software
under the GNU General Public License (“GPL”) violate the federal
antitrust laws? Authors who distribute their works under this license,
devised by the Free Software Foundation, Inc., authorize not only
copying but also the creation of derivative works—and the license
prohibits charging for the derivative work. People may make and
distribute derivative works if and only if they come under the same
license terms as the original work. Thus the GPL propagates from user
to user and revision to revision: neither the original author, nor any
creator of a revised or improved version, may charge for the software
or allow any successor to charge. Copyright law, usually the basis of
limiting reproduction in order to collect a fee, ensures that open-
source software remains free: any attempt to sell a derivative work
will violate the copyright laws, even if the improver has not accepted
the GPL. The Free Software Foundation calls the result “copyleft.”

[...]

The GPL covers only the software; people are free to charge for the
physical media on which it comes and for assistance in making it work.
Paper manuals, and the time of knowledgeable people who service and
support an installation, thus are the most expensive part of using
Linux.
--------

So concluded prolific and learned Chief Judge Frank Easterbrook, and
added that: "Copyright and patent laws give authors *a right* to charge
more [than zero], so that they can recover their fixed costs [and thus
promote innovation], but they do *not require* authors to charge more."

"This [and the fact that "the Supreme Court has permitted producers to
initiate predatory-pricing litigation"] does not assist Williams,
however, because his legal theory is faulty substantively."

You hear that, Williams? (Does Easterbrook mean Wallace or Gates?) You
are not required to charge more once a piece of your intellectual
property exists.

And so it is perfectly okay for copyleft ("free as in freedom") to
suppress *a right* given by copyright law and *require* to charge
zero to cover costs of creating a piece of intellectual property to
exist.

regards,
alexander.
--
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1139911511108
(Law.com - Meet the DotCommunist)
David Kastrup
2006-12-07 19:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
So concluded prolific and learned Chief Judge Frank Easterbrook, and
added that: "Copyright and patent laws give authors *a right* to
charge more [than zero], so that they can recover their fixed costs
[and thus promote innovation], but they do *not require* authors to
charge more."
"This [and the fact that "the Supreme Court has permitted producers
to initiate predatory-pricing litigation"] does not assist Williams,
however, because his legal theory is faulty substantively."
You hear that, Williams? (Does Easterbrook mean Wallace or Gates?)
You are not required to charge more once a piece of your
intellectual property exists.
And so it is perfectly okay for copyleft ("free as in freedom") to
suppress *a right* given by copyright law
Copyleft does no such thing. Copyright law does not give _anybody_
the right to create derivative works and distribute them without
consent or license from the original author. The GPL does not touch
the right to works that are _wholly_ your own.
Post by Alexander Terekhov
and *require* to charge zero to cover costs of creating a piece of
intellectual property to exist.
Not even that, even when you are creating derivative works of GPLed
material. You can charge _arbitrary_ prices for _copies_ to cover the
costs of creating a piece of intellectual property to exist. What you
are _not_ allowed is to _change_ the license under which you received
the material, or add stuff under incompatible licenses. It is
copyright law, not the GPL, that prohibits you from charging _any_
amount (including zero) for creating and distributing derivative works
without assent of the original copyright holder.

The GPL _relaxes_ the prohibitions of copyright law, permitting you to
redistribute at an arbitrary price per copy, but only if the license
is retained, and no _extra_ charge is placed for the licensing of the
source code.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
Alexander Terekhov
2006-12-08 11:15:56 UTC
Permalink
David Kastrup wrote:
[...]
Post by David Kastrup
The GPL _relaxes_ the prohibitions of copyright law, permitting you to
The GPL grants the rights of reproduction and also creation of derivative
works.

But it (purportedly) takes away default right codified in 17 USC 109 to
distribute copies (material objects incorporating works which includes
both verbatim copying and derivative works) lawfully made (i.e. under
granted rights of reproduction and also creation of derivative works)
WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY OF THE COPYRIGHT OWNER (go read 17 USC 109). It
also wants to take away a right to charge anything for derivative works
(intellectual property lawfully created by the licensees, that is) and
it wants to mandate price fixing contract terms for licensing of
derivative works to "all third parties".

http://www.jbb.de/judgment_dc_frankfurt_gpl.pdf

"Defendant argues, the provisions of the GPL violate Article 81 EC and
Section 1 of the German Antitrust Act (GWB), in particular the
prohibition against price fixing and of predetermining the conditions
of secondary contracts in the first contract." [1]

http://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?submit=showbr&shofile=06-2454_008.pdf

"Copyright and patent laws give authors *a right* to charge more [than
zero], so that they can recover their fixed costs [and thus promote
innovation]" observed prolific and learned Chief Judge Frank Easterbrook.

Read also BREAKING BARRIERS: THE RELATION BETWEEN CONTRACT AND
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAW By Raymond T. Nimmer.

[1] http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/resources/feedback/OIIFB_GPL3_20040903.pdf

Appellate Judge Hoeren (Court of Appeal of Dusseldorf, Copyright Senate):

------
g. Finally, there is the important question of the consequences of the
assumed invalidity of the GPL. The Munich court argued that the
question of the enforceability of the GPL was in no way relevant.
According to the Bavarian judges, if the GPL is legally ineffective,
the user does not have a license and is thus violating copyright law.
On the face of it, that sounds plausible, but it is
not. If somebody offers software on the Internet for downloading and
links the download with invalid general terms, he can hardly sue for
copyright infringement. Instead, the validity of the standard terms is
a matter for the software distributor: if he wants to use invalid
contractual terms, he bears the risk of their use. It would violate
equity and good faith if he were allowed to sue others merely on the
grounds that his license terms were invalid.
------

(DISTRICT COURT OF FRANKFURT AM MAIN joined DISTRICT COURT OF MUNICH
in that exact same idiocy regarding assumed invalidity of the GPL and
just parroted what Welte's attorneys from http://www.ifross.de/ have
thrown on them.)

See also

http://digital-law-online.info/lpdi1.0/treatise15.html

regards,
alexander.

"So now they're going to try the hard work of cracking 'Freedom'. Free,
well that means stuff you don't pay for"

-- Eben Moglen ("Moglen: How we'll kill the Microsoft Novell deal")
David Kastrup
2006-12-08 19:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Terekhov
[...]
Post by David Kastrup
The GPL _relaxes_ the prohibitions of copyright law, permitting you to
The GPL grants the rights of reproduction and also creation of
derivative works.
Under conditions.
Post by Alexander Terekhov
But it (purportedly) takes away default right codified in 17 USC 109
to distribute copies (material objects incorporating works which
includes both verbatim copying and derivative works) lawfully made
(i.e. under granted rights of reproduction and also creation of
derivative works) WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY OF THE COPYRIGHT OWNER (go
read 17 USC 109).
Actually, it doesn't. It is still an option for you to not accept the
GPL and default to the normal provisions of copyright in your country.

The GPL explicitly says:

5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have
not signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to
modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These
actions are prohibited by law if you do not accept this License.
Therefore, by modifying or distributing the Program (or any work
based on the Program), you indicate your acceptance of this
License to do so, and all its terms and conditions for copying,
distributing or modifying the Program or works based on it.

Note that this is about _modifying_ and _distributing_, not just
passing on and exhausting a physical copy (go read 17 USC 109).
Post by Alexander Terekhov
It also wants to take away a right to charge anything for derivative
works (intellectual property lawfully created by the licensees, that
is)
There is no such right. Derivative works can't be distributed without
the consent of the original author. This right is taken away by
copyright law, not the GPL.
Post by Alexander Terekhov
and it wants to mandate price fixing contract terms for licensing of
derivative works to "all third parties".
http://www.jbb.de/judgment_dc_frankfurt_gpl.pdf
Sure. No extra charge for the licensing is permitted for the whole
work. You may only charge whatever you want to for the transfer of a
physical copy, and this copy then has to be licensed without further
ado or cost under the GPL.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
Alexander Terekhov
2006-12-09 17:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kastrup
Post by Alexander Terekhov
[...]
Post by David Kastrup
The GPL _relaxes_ the prohibitions of copyright law, permitting you to
The GPL grants the rights of reproduction and also creation of
derivative works.
Under conditions.
The GPL contains no conditions precedent (at least under New York
law. :-) ).

-------
"We think that the payment of royalties and the inclusion of a notice
crediting James's authorship are to be considered covenants, not
conditions. The construction of the licensing agreement is governed by
New York law. See Bartsch v. Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, Inc. , 391 F.2d 150,
153 (2d Cir. 1968). Generally speaking, New York respects a presumption
that terms of a contract are covenants rather than conditions ... 'The
law favors covenants, rather than conditions precedent.'), aff'd , 193
N.Y. 661 (1908)." Graham id.
-------

Here the word "conditions" is historical and refers generally to
"conditions precedent"... some condition that must be satisfied
*before* a grant of rights is effective. Failure to meet a "condition
precedent" stated in a contract gives rise to an infringement violation
under section 504 because you never got permission in the first place.
Conditions precedent are disfavored in the law.

---------
While a party that owns copyright rights is ordinarily entitled to pursue
infringement claims against any third party who violates them, the courts
have recognized that the rights and remedies available to copyright
holders change significantly when the owner elects to give others a
nonexclusive license to use such property. In that situation, the
owner/user relationship is fundamentally different. Absent a license, the
rights of the copyright holder are governed by statutory and common
law rules applicable to such rights. With a license, however, the terms
and covenants of the license establish the applicable rules. See
Effects Associates, Inc. v. Cohen, 908 F.2d 555, 559 (9th Cir. 1990)
(in granting a copyright license, the licensor gives up its right to sue
the licensee for infringement).

Recognizing that the existence of consensual licensing arrangements
significantly changes the applicable rules and the expectations of the
parties, federal courts have held that a party cannot normally pursue a
copyright infringement action based upon the licensees breach of
covenants in the license agreement. As a general rule, " if the
[licensees] improper conduct constitutes a breach of a covenant
undertaken by the licensee . . . and if such covenant constitutes an
enforceable contractual obligation, then the licensor will have the
cause of action for contract," not for copyright infringement. Graham
v. James , 144 F.3d 229, 236-37 (2d Cir. 1998) quoting 3 Melville B.
Nimmer & David Nimmer, Nimmer on Copyright, 10.15[A] at 10-120
(1998); see also Kolbe v. Trudel , 945 F. Supp. 1268, 1270-71
(D. Ariz. 1996). As the Ninth Circuit explained in Topolos v. Caldewey,
698 F.2d 991, 993 (9th Cir. 1983):

[A] case does not arise under the federal copyright laws . . . merely
because the subject matter of the action involves or affects a copyright.
---------

The GPL says (regarding distribution of copies in object code form, for
example):

---------
a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable
source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections
1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three
years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your
cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete
machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be
distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium
customarily used for software interchange; or,

c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer
to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is
allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you
received the program in object code or executable form with such
an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)
---------

So how is that in sync with "... without the authority of the copyright
owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or
phonorecord" spelled out in 17 USC 109?

As for the reproduction right (1) and derivative works right (2) both
implying the distribution right (3) [see 17 USC 106], it's not an
implication, but a special rule in United States copyright law spelled
out in Section 109. (It is commonly called "first sale," but the actual
parameters of the rule are specified in the statute and not some lay
reading of "first," "sale," or even "first sale.")

The heart of the provision is its first sentence:

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner of a
particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or
any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the
authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose
of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.

But it goes on to state exceptions to this rule (primarily for the
rental of phonorecords and software) and exceptions to these exceptions,
not part of the original Copyright Act of 1976.

But if one has permission to make lawful copies, one does not need any
additional permission to distribute those copies to the public.
Post by David Kastrup
It is still an option for you to not accept the
GPL and default to the normal provisions of copyright in your country.
5. You are not required to accept this License, since you have
not signed it. However, nothing else grants you permission to
modify or distribute the Program or its derivative works. These
actions are prohibited by law if you do not accept this License.
Just because the GPL states something doesn't make it so. In particular,
there are a couple of misstatements of the law there.

The first is that "nothing else grants you permission to modify ...
the Program."

17 USC 117(a) DOES grant that permission in a special, but important
instance:

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an
infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to
make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of
that computer program provided:

(1) that such a new copy or adaptation is created as an essential
step in the utilization of the computer program in conjunction
with a machine and that it is used in no other manner ...

So, as long as the adaptation (modification) is "an essential step in
the utilization of the computer program in conjunction with a machine"
it is permitted without the GPL.

See

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/2nd/039303p.pdf

The second is that "nothing else grants you permission to ... distribute
the program."

17 USC 109(a) states that:

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106(3), the owner
of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this
title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled,
without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise
dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord.

However, you can't dispose of the possession of a computer program by
rental or lending. See 17 USC 109(b).

So, a more accurate statement would be:

However, nothing else grants you permission to modify AND
distribute the Program or its derivative works. These actions are
prohibited by law if you do not accept this License.

(The stuff about signing the license is a little wierd, too. It's not
really clear the point that is being made. Perhaps it's trying to say
that since you haven't signed the license, you haven't accepted its
terms yet, but will have to if you are going to perform an act that
requires a permission giving in the license.)

regards,
alexander.

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